If you are or were a Seinfeld fan, you might remember the scene where Elaine asks whether Tolstoy’s War and Peace would have been as highly acclaimed as it was had it been published under its real title, War, What is it Good For?
I wonder what I would ask the Iraqis I met & helped back in '04-'05. Would they feel and say my teams efforts were all for naught? I don't think so. Not on an individual level. We made villages better. We made families and lives better. But we didn't improve the country as a whole. And that makes me so sad I circle back around to righteous anger. I want to go back and check in on my people. I know they don't remember me, but I sure as hell remember them. Their faces are burned into my mind, and will be, until the day I die. And the fucked up thing is that I have to carry a piece of paper with my kids birthdates & social security numbers on them as one was born the week I left & the other was born the year after I got back & both have been overwritten by TBIs, PTSD, exposure to toxic burn pits, and depleted uranium and a nuclear research facility.
Oh man. I'm so sorry about that. I have heard many similar stories from my students over the years who went to Iraq. Like you say, there are two sides of this coin. On one hand those Iraqis you helped probably do remember you and their lives were made better for what you and your fellow soldiers did. On the other hand, you and your family have to suffer for it, just like my family did with my grandfather. There are no easy answers. But thank you for reading and taking the time to respond. I wish you peace.
I love my life and my children, but I've made peace with the fact that the only end to it is in "the end". So, I wait. I watch everything I struggled for in the time when I cared burn thanks to a callous society that put no value on the sacrifices of other. They the words, basically, but because they themselves have never had to do anything more difficult than go without a reliable 5G or WiFi connection, they care nothing for someone who has had to watch another bleed out, or force them to bleed out. I try to be gentle with this generation, but I find myself in a sort of "shadow zone", that exists between this peace time world I live in where I'm a normal person, and the war torn world my mind routinely jumps in & out of depending on who flips my switch with their lack of awareness & their general carelessness. Americans are just kinda dumb in general. And I kinda find it unacceptable. But what do I know? I'm just another angry old man now. Fuck me.
I hear you and understand you, I served in Iraq as well. Different year though, one thing I want to say is I agree with you in the majority of this, I also feel the same.
There is one thing I want to point out and I think the general population doesn't understand how to approach let alone talk to a Veteran. I am in college and I tend to get Isolated because I am a veteran. Once people hear that a fear basically gets in there eyes. I wonder if they think I am a terrible person just because I served or if they are just genuinely scared of the unknown. Social media, games and movies depict us as heartless fighters willing to do what ever it takes to get to the end, regardless of the violence.
I have taken a stance though to be different than everyone else, I like to inform people especially the younger generation because our nation was once a great nation, now we are just a tore up society that hates everyone and everything. It gives you a chance to show your values and change the hearts and minds. Word of mouth goes a long way so try it for yourself.
I approach students as a student and anyone that is older as a veteran, one thing I learned is if you do what you feel is right usually you will get acknowledged. It is almost like a first impression once you build that, it stays regardless of who you were in the past because they see you now. I have students and fellow adults alike that show me respect, but on the same side of that coin I have people that show me disdain just because they disagree with war and violence.
Remember this Life is a Trial and Error, regardless of the trials and errors you have still made it through and you have succeeded even now. Good job and Keep it up!
Americans think wars are TV shows or video games. We've only had one big one at home, and that was a long time ago and pretty low-tech. I think of the fist fights I've seen in person and also been in, and then multiply that by 100 in intensity and duration. That's what war experience must be like. No joke, no game. Hang in there.
Indeed! Except for the Treaty of Versailles that ended WWI, which I mention in the post. I heard one historian refer to it as "the politics of hatred," which made it so that 9 million soldiers died for nothing, so peace talks like that would definitely not be a good starting point. But I take your overall point about peace being considered first.
John Maynard Keynes quit working for the British government (and got seriously depressed) over its stupidity on the Treaty. Funnily enough, he also sat and watched the powers that be ignore his advice about how to structure the post-WW2 world economy at Bretton Woods after the Nazi sequel had played itself out. But peace and charity are especially counter-intuitive at moments of supposed glory.
I remember your grandpa trying to talk about it, even after decades had passed. I also remember him getting shushed. One thought I have is what a terrible irony it is that we talking monkeys only grow the last, perspective-bringing parts of our brains after we're past the age of prime violence capacity. In fact, much of that prime stretch is inherently late-teenaged, isn't it? And then, having lived through maybe the worst possible trauma, the kid is supposed to just stride on.
The other thought I have is that power elites are always the main ones sponsoring the glorifying flatteries of soldier-worship, which lays the rails for the next war. The Pentagon is a huge marketer, on many fronts.
Hi cousin! Yes, I thought you would also remember Ma doing that to him. Or maybe your grandmother. It's sad and, like I said in the piece, I wish he were here sometimes so I could talk to him and try to better understand. I also miss grandma Jenny every day.
Your comment about the power elites sponsoring soldier worship certainly rings true for what I study in the Viking Age. Doesn't bode well for us, does it, that we haven't progressed in 1,200 years....
The funny part is that I think all those people were New Dealers, though I've never been sure how your "side" saw it, and we never really talked about it as a principle. They were certainly all workers. And my own dad was pretty conservative, for weird reasons, until he wasn't.
Excellent essay. My dad was a WWII veteran whom Mum refused to marry until he was mustered out of the army after the war. (He was with the Australian Infantry Forces in New Guinea and Bougainville). Fortunately he always remained a peaceful man, but so many others were severely damaged by what they experienced. War is good for nothing except the ruin of humanity. Let those who want it fight it out in an arena and let the rest of us get on with living (hopefully useful) lives. My heartfelt thanks and best wishes to all veterans of war who suffered just doing their "job" at the behest of politicians.
The history I prefer is where someone sees a remnant, asks what that is, and investigates until they find out everything possible. Here is a radio show where an American cyclist saw a marker for a WWII massacre and followed every trail possible. He finds a veteran who speaks. https://revealnews.org/podcast/take-no-prisoners/
"War is Hell" as Sherman said. The horror of it is obvious and overwhelming to the individual.
Taking the above as "read" the next question(s) is how do we motivate, train and organise people to actually go into that Hell, survive it and be effective (or at least more effective than the enemy)?
This is why War is the most extreme human endeavour. Clausewitz called this "Friction".
Thanks for reading and the comments Martin. In my research that I mention in the piece, I read a book by Shannon French titled Code of the Warrior. She taught military ethics at the U.S. Naval Academy for several years, trying to help soldiers with just the dilemma you bring up. How do you pluck people out of a certain type of life, break them down and recreate them so you can ask at least some of them to do awful things, and then expect them to extract themselves when it's done and simply return to "normal" life? Her answer, at least in part, is by helping them live by a code of ethics. In full disclosure, I have never been in the military, but like lots of people have certainly known many soldiers and, of course there is my grandpa I talk about in this post. But that doesn't mean I can testify to whether a code of ethics works. I suppose it does help for some. The book is worth checking out if you're interested in this subject.
War is good for killing people, straight up. If it's your intention to kill a load of Nazis, or Communists, or Yankees, or what-have-you, well, you want to use war for that.
War is good for instituting and extending the influence of one's group over others, and crucially, war is equally good for warding off other groups from creating those things for themselves at your own expense.
Expense? War is good for making money. Finance are the sinews of war, they say, and with all that money sloshing around people will enrich themselves, or at least find a living, in war profits. It's customary. War is good for that.
I will add that humans turn to violence because violence works - and you don't have to be particularly adept to use it. If you say "blue" and I say "red", and then I thunk you over the head with a tree branch, it's red from here on out, isn't it?
I apologize, I would never thunk anyone over the head with a tree branch :)
Thanks for the additional thoughts. My friend who is a Political Science faculty and former U.S. Marine thinks you would make a great political scientist :)
I wonder what I would ask the Iraqis I met & helped back in '04-'05. Would they feel and say my teams efforts were all for naught? I don't think so. Not on an individual level. We made villages better. We made families and lives better. But we didn't improve the country as a whole. And that makes me so sad I circle back around to righteous anger. I want to go back and check in on my people. I know they don't remember me, but I sure as hell remember them. Their faces are burned into my mind, and will be, until the day I die. And the fucked up thing is that I have to carry a piece of paper with my kids birthdates & social security numbers on them as one was born the week I left & the other was born the year after I got back & both have been overwritten by TBIs, PTSD, exposure to toxic burn pits, and depleted uranium and a nuclear research facility.
What was ANY of it good for? Not a fucking thing.
Oh man. I'm so sorry about that. I have heard many similar stories from my students over the years who went to Iraq. Like you say, there are two sides of this coin. On one hand those Iraqis you helped probably do remember you and their lives were made better for what you and your fellow soldiers did. On the other hand, you and your family have to suffer for it, just like my family did with my grandfather. There are no easy answers. But thank you for reading and taking the time to respond. I wish you peace.
I love my life and my children, but I've made peace with the fact that the only end to it is in "the end". So, I wait. I watch everything I struggled for in the time when I cared burn thanks to a callous society that put no value on the sacrifices of other. They the words, basically, but because they themselves have never had to do anything more difficult than go without a reliable 5G or WiFi connection, they care nothing for someone who has had to watch another bleed out, or force them to bleed out. I try to be gentle with this generation, but I find myself in a sort of "shadow zone", that exists between this peace time world I live in where I'm a normal person, and the war torn world my mind routinely jumps in & out of depending on who flips my switch with their lack of awareness & their general carelessness. Americans are just kinda dumb in general. And I kinda find it unacceptable. But what do I know? I'm just another angry old man now. Fuck me.
I hear you and understand you, I served in Iraq as well. Different year though, one thing I want to say is I agree with you in the majority of this, I also feel the same.
There is one thing I want to point out and I think the general population doesn't understand how to approach let alone talk to a Veteran. I am in college and I tend to get Isolated because I am a veteran. Once people hear that a fear basically gets in there eyes. I wonder if they think I am a terrible person just because I served or if they are just genuinely scared of the unknown. Social media, games and movies depict us as heartless fighters willing to do what ever it takes to get to the end, regardless of the violence.
I have taken a stance though to be different than everyone else, I like to inform people especially the younger generation because our nation was once a great nation, now we are just a tore up society that hates everyone and everything. It gives you a chance to show your values and change the hearts and minds. Word of mouth goes a long way so try it for yourself.
I approach students as a student and anyone that is older as a veteran, one thing I learned is if you do what you feel is right usually you will get acknowledged. It is almost like a first impression once you build that, it stays regardless of who you were in the past because they see you now. I have students and fellow adults alike that show me respect, but on the same side of that coin I have people that show me disdain just because they disagree with war and violence.
Remember this Life is a Trial and Error, regardless of the trials and errors you have still made it through and you have succeeded even now. Good job and Keep it up!
Kind regards
a fellow Veteran
Thank you for sharing this. 🙏
Americans think wars are TV shows or video games. We've only had one big one at home, and that was a long time ago and pretty low-tech. I think of the fist fights I've seen in person and also been in, and then multiply that by 100 in intensity and duration. That's what war experience must be like. No joke, no game. Hang in there.
I often say most wars end at peace talks so why not start there?
Indeed! Except for the Treaty of Versailles that ended WWI, which I mention in the post. I heard one historian refer to it as "the politics of hatred," which made it so that 9 million soldiers died for nothing, so peace talks like that would definitely not be a good starting point. But I take your overall point about peace being considered first.
John Maynard Keynes quit working for the British government (and got seriously depressed) over its stupidity on the Treaty. Funnily enough, he also sat and watched the powers that be ignore his advice about how to structure the post-WW2 world economy at Bretton Woods after the Nazi sequel had played itself out. But peace and charity are especially counter-intuitive at moments of supposed glory.
Terri, thank you for sharing your family's personal experience with your Grandfather's trauma.
I remember your grandpa trying to talk about it, even after decades had passed. I also remember him getting shushed. One thought I have is what a terrible irony it is that we talking monkeys only grow the last, perspective-bringing parts of our brains after we're past the age of prime violence capacity. In fact, much of that prime stretch is inherently late-teenaged, isn't it? And then, having lived through maybe the worst possible trauma, the kid is supposed to just stride on.
The other thought I have is that power elites are always the main ones sponsoring the glorifying flatteries of soldier-worship, which lays the rails for the next war. The Pentagon is a huge marketer, on many fronts.
Hi cousin! Yes, I thought you would also remember Ma doing that to him. Or maybe your grandmother. It's sad and, like I said in the piece, I wish he were here sometimes so I could talk to him and try to better understand. I also miss grandma Jenny every day.
Your comment about the power elites sponsoring soldier worship certainly rings true for what I study in the Viking Age. Doesn't bode well for us, does it, that we haven't progressed in 1,200 years....
The funny part is that I think all those people were New Dealers, though I've never been sure how your "side" saw it, and we never really talked about it as a principle. They were certainly all workers. And my own dad was pretty conservative, for weird reasons, until he wasn't.
Excellent essay. My dad was a WWII veteran whom Mum refused to marry until he was mustered out of the army after the war. (He was with the Australian Infantry Forces in New Guinea and Bougainville). Fortunately he always remained a peaceful man, but so many others were severely damaged by what they experienced. War is good for nothing except the ruin of humanity. Let those who want it fight it out in an arena and let the rest of us get on with living (hopefully useful) lives. My heartfelt thanks and best wishes to all veterans of war who suffered just doing their "job" at the behest of politicians.
Well said Kerry! Thanks as always for reading ❤️
The history I prefer is where someone sees a remnant, asks what that is, and investigates until they find out everything possible. Here is a radio show where an American cyclist saw a marker for a WWII massacre and followed every trail possible. He finds a veteran who speaks. https://revealnews.org/podcast/take-no-prisoners/
Thanks Jack. I’ll check it out!
…premise for dark fantasy sagas?
Maybe?! I’ll have to get my friend @rowdygeirsson on it!
Great essay!
"War is Hell" as Sherman said. The horror of it is obvious and overwhelming to the individual.
Taking the above as "read" the next question(s) is how do we motivate, train and organise people to actually go into that Hell, survive it and be effective (or at least more effective than the enemy)?
This is why War is the most extreme human endeavour. Clausewitz called this "Friction".
Thanks for reading and the comments Martin. In my research that I mention in the piece, I read a book by Shannon French titled Code of the Warrior. She taught military ethics at the U.S. Naval Academy for several years, trying to help soldiers with just the dilemma you bring up. How do you pluck people out of a certain type of life, break them down and recreate them so you can ask at least some of them to do awful things, and then expect them to extract themselves when it's done and simply return to "normal" life? Her answer, at least in part, is by helping them live by a code of ethics. In full disclosure, I have never been in the military, but like lots of people have certainly known many soldiers and, of course there is my grandpa I talk about in this post. But that doesn't mean I can testify to whether a code of ethics works. I suppose it does help for some. The book is worth checking out if you're interested in this subject.
War is good for a lot of things, just sayin'.
Okay, the question was posed in my post, so make the case.
If you like,
War is good for killing people, straight up. If it's your intention to kill a load of Nazis, or Communists, or Yankees, or what-have-you, well, you want to use war for that.
War is good for instituting and extending the influence of one's group over others, and crucially, war is equally good for warding off other groups from creating those things for themselves at your own expense.
Expense? War is good for making money. Finance are the sinews of war, they say, and with all that money sloshing around people will enrich themselves, or at least find a living, in war profits. It's customary. War is good for that.
I will add that humans turn to violence because violence works - and you don't have to be particularly adept to use it. If you say "blue" and I say "red", and then I thunk you over the head with a tree branch, it's red from here on out, isn't it?
I apologize, I would never thunk anyone over the head with a tree branch :)
Thanks for the additional thoughts. My friend who is a Political Science faculty and former U.S. Marine thinks you would make a great political scientist :)
Thank you for your interest